Legality of creating real porn games.

[LuxoGames]

So I am creating a text-based real porn game. I posted about the game on Reddit, and I got some comments like these:

"Patreon doesn’t allow real porn on their website and do you have permission to use those clips?
If not that’s copyright infringement."

"You're stealing IP from porn studios. Enjoy your lawsuit."

And I wanted to know how it works in reality. Should I concern myself about stuff like that? I'm asking because I know a lot of popular real porn games, some of which are on Patron, so it can't be that serious, right?

 

[woody554]

technically, of course the copyright holder can always sue you.

in practice? they'd have to hear of you first. nobody knows you even here.

 

[c3p0]

So I am creating a text-based real porn game. I posted about the game on Reddit, and I got some comments like these:

"Patreon doesn’t allow real porn on their website and do you have permission to use those clips?
If not that’s copyright infringement."

"You're stealing IP from porn studios. Enjoy your lawsuit."

And I wanted to know how it works in reality. Should I concern myself about stuff like that? I'm asking because I know a lot of popular real porn games, some of which are on Patron, so it can't be that serious, right?

No, laws are a laughing matter, especially if your sitting on the right side of the law.
If you use any IP (regardless of real porn or just some lousy drawn ones) and you don't have the licence for it, your most likely don't site on the right side of the law and you are at risk.

If you want to know how much risk this means and so on, go to your legal advisor of choice, but don't ask this on a general adult game forum.

 

[Glorified_ignorance]

 

[Droid Productions]

And I wanted to know how it works in reality. Should I concern myself about stuff like that? I'm asking because I know a lot of popular real porn games, some of which are on Patron, so it can't be that serious, right?

There's two different issues at work here.

Patreon (and itch.io and Steam) don't want to deal with real porn; it comes with its own set of legal risks and issues in the US,

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. Patreon doesn't want the headache of being responsible for that shit even if you DID have the records (which you don't). They *will* nuke your account the moment they notice what you're doing.

The IP rights belong to the company that filmed it (and paid the for the model and photographer). They *could* sue you, but in practice, unless you made it ridiculously big and lived somewhere they could easily get to (trying to sue some random Russian for IP infraction is not happening). Realistically it won't happen, because the payment gateways/portals will nuke you before you get big enough to be worth suing.

If you want to make money on this, I would recommend another path.

 

[LuxoGames]

There's two different issues at work here.

Patreon (and itch.io and Steam) don't want to deal with real porn; it comes with its own set of legal risks and issues in the US,

You must be registered to see the links

. Patreon doesn't want the headache of being responsible for that shit even if you DID have the records (which you don't). They *will* nuke your account the moment they notice what you're doing.

The IP rights belong to the company that filmed it (and paid the for the model and photographer). They *could* sue you, but in practice, unless you made it ridiculously big and lived somewhere they could easily get to (trying to sue some random Russian for IP infraction is not happening). Realistically it won't happen, because the payment gateways/portals will nuke you before you get big enough to be worth suing.

If you want to make money on this, I would recommend another path.

Do you think SubscribeStar is a good option? I'm trying to get aproved there but it takes time, so that's why I created the Patreon page.

 

[Droid Productions]

Do you think SubscribeStar is a good option? I'm trying to get aproved there but it takes time, so that's why I created the Patron page.

Not really; they're small, and trying to grow by appealing to the shadier side of the market, but they're also a US company, and have to deal with the same record keeping rules as Patreon, on pain of federal prosecution for potential distribution of CP. Not a hill anyone is particularly willing to die on.

They'd not *want* to kill you, so they'd likely "not notice" until forced to (someone makes a formal complaint), which is logged, and now when the FBI comes knocking they're on the hook. At that point they'll throw you under the bus so fast you bounce twice.

Real porn,

You must be registered to see the links

, is not the path to financial success.

 

[LuxoGames]

Not really; they're small, and trying to grow by appealing to the shadier side of the market, but they're also a US company, and have to deal with the same record keeping rules as Patreon, on pain of federal prosecution for potential distribution of CP. Not a hill anyone is particularly willing to die on.

They'd not *want* to kill you, so they'd likely "not notice" until forced to (someone makes a formal complaint), which is logged, and now when the FBI comes knocking they're on the hook. At that point they'll throw you under the bus so fast you bounce twice.

Real porn,

You must be registered to see the links

, is not the path to financial success.

Ok, I understand, but there are a ton of real porn games on Patreon and even more on SubscribeStar right? I know it would probably be a problem if i would make thousand of dolars a month, but I don't even dream of that kind of money. I would consider it a big succes to get to 200-300$/month. So from everything I have seen it seems like there won't be any real problems with that tbh.

But maybe I'm just ignorant in some way? It's my first game so I'm not sure.

 

[Droid Productions]

But maybe I'm just ignorant in some way? It's my first game so I'm not sure.

They're not (yet) reported, but... that's not really a particularly safe business.

The one option I've seen is something like Venus Club where the 'base download' is completely legit, and some dastardly, malicious and anonymous individual provide 'girl packs' that can be conveniently added as mods.

At that point Patreon will likely shrug and go "not our problem".

It's... well, a little transparent. But, like the Flatmate and Landlady figleaf, it provides enough cover that Patreon can go "how were we to know?"

 

[Liquid Tube Technology]

I'm not a game developer, but I personally think that the risks are too great with anything that is copyrighted. With real porn, we are dealing with actual REAL people, which means the risks have got to become greater.

Like I said, I may not be a game developer but I write erotica as a hobby. There is a novel I've been working on for a while and, even though I have told a group of selected people about it, I have absolutely no intention of ever actually publishing it. The reason is because the story has way too many references to the existing films and TV shows, not to mention the abundance of real life parallels. The MC in the story is based on myself, and the girls in my "harem" are actually based on real people I've met. Many of the other supportive characters are also people who know me, and/or the girls. Even though they are all aware that I've used them as the inspirations for my book's characters (because naturally I've told them), if I were to publish something like this, I'd be subjecting a lot of people to unwanted bleach of privacy, or whatever its legal term is. I can't have that.

Not to mention, outside of all that, I am a creative person doing creative things for work, and I would be gutted if someone stole my creative work (not my novels, those are totally private). Then I'd surely consider suing the person responsible, regardless of whether or not my work is internationally huge. For this, I may seem to others like I'm an asshole for trying to "take away" someone else's money by suing them. But, no. They stole my work first in this case, so it's only fair that I retaliate.

So, my advice is to abort the use of real porn. The risk, however ambiguous, may be too great, an it's just not worth it in my opinion.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Ok, I understand, but there are a ton of real porn games on Patreon and even more on SubscribeStar right?

Each day there's stolen cars, do this mean that stealing a car is something legal ?

I know it would probably be a problem if i would make thousand of dolars a month, [...]

Is stealing a car less illegal because it's a shitty one that could barely works ?

But maybe I'm just ignorant in some way? It's my first game so I'm not sure.

It's not a question of games, it's a question of Law.
You are using the Intellectual Property of someone else, for something else than a pure private use, and without any authorization. It's illegal, whatever the use you make of it, whatever if you earn money from it or not, and whatever that IP effectively is, period.

It's not because some people are doing it, and so far they haven't been busted, that it's legal. If people were only doing legal things, there would be no need for cops and judges.
Westy thought the same way than you ; there's people doing it, and they don't have problem, so I'll do it. And he effectively did it making a loli game (banned from here due to rule 7, so including pre-pubescent characters), while surely knowing that it's illegal in his country. And

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...

 

[LuxoGames]

Each day there's stolen cars, do this mean that stealing a car is something legal ?




Is stealing a car less illegal because it's a shitty one that could barely works ?




It's not a question of games, it's a question of Law.
You are using the Intellectual Property of someone else, for something else than a pure private use, and without any authorization. It's illegal, whatever the use you make of it, whatever if you earn money from it or not, and whatever that IP effectively is, period.

It's not because some people are doing it, and so far they haven't been busted, that it's legal. If people were only doing legal things, there would be no need for cops and judges.
Westy thought the same way than you ; there's people doing it, and they don't have problem, so I'll do it. And he effectively did it making a loli game (banned from here due to rule 7, so including pre-pubescent characters), while surely knowing that it's illegal in his country. And

You must be registered to see the links

...

Thanks for the answer. I realized now that I could have constructed the question better. I just wanted to know if Patron is going to ban me, but since I asked about the "Legality" everyone is giving me legal advice lol.

Also, this answer reminded me of the "Piracy, it's a crime" campaign.

 

[Lerd0]

Thanks for the answer. I realized now that I could have constructed the question better. I just wanted to know if Patron is going to ban me, but since I asked about the "Legality" everyone is giving me legal advice lol.

Also, this answer reminded me of the "Piracy, it's a crime" campaign. View attachment 2961499

 

[Girm Ork]

So I am creating a text-based real porn game. I posted about the game on Reddit, and I got some comments like these:

"Patreon doesn’t allow real porn on their website and do you have permission to use those clips?
If not that’s copyright infringement."

"You're stealing IP from porn studios. Enjoy your lawsuit."

And I wanted to know how it works in reality. Should I concern myself about stuff like that? I'm asking because I know a lot of popular real porn games, some of which are on Patron, so it can't be that serious, right?

First of all, you must check the rules of Patreon. They could easily delete your account if you are violating their ToS.
If I remember correctly, they forbid pornography (with IRL actors).

 

[LuxoGames]

First of all, you must check the rules of Patreon. They could easily delete your account if you are violating their ToS.
If I remember correctly, they forbid pornography (with IRL actors).

Yes, I talked with some people since I posted this, and from what I heard, Patron sometimes bans real porn games. It's a bit of a gamble. I don't think it happens all that often, but it's not great knowing it can all just disappear at some point. I heard multiple times that Subscribe Star is a much better option since they almost don't ban games at all. So, I'm trying to get a working Subscribe Star page, but the approval process is a pain in the ass.

 

[anne O'nymous]

[...] Patron sometimes bans real porn games. It's a bit of a gamble. I don't think it happens all that often, but it's not great knowing it can all just disappear at some point.

They bans what they know about, therefore what is reported to them.
You can be an averagely successful dev making an incest (banned content) for six years without any problem (I'll not give names for obvious reason), as you can be banned in two days. All depend if you, or your game content, annoy someone that will then report you to Patreon, or not.
But strictly speaking, their ToS forbid real porn and the use material under copyright without the authorization to do so. What make your project be twice against their rules.

 

[orellion]

Having known someone who worked as a small time pron producer, the typical action will be a cease and desist first, because its prohibitively expensive to bring forth a lawsuit these days. They would need to prove your game cost them more in damages than the lawsuit/court costs to make it worth it. So that would be very hard to do with an HTML game imo.

With so many tube sites around illegally hosting their full videos, its safe to say porn games will be low on their radar. They have bigger fish to fry. That said, don't draw attention to yourself by including excessively long vids, use them sparsely. Don't start the game off with some Brazzers or Evil Angel video in HD immediately. Don't advertise how much your making from it.

 

[GNVE]

Well in some ways its easier for a porn company to make money by threatening law suits rather then actually suing.
There was a porn company targeting p2p networks.
Their shakedown worked essentially as follows: you downloaded our content illegally. You can pay several thousands now or we'll sue you. (this means exposing their name to the world and adding into evidence the names of the porn movies downloaded.)
A lot of people just paid up for fear of the ramifications of their loved ones/neighbours/employers finding out.
Besides a few grand is a lot cheaper than the 20K and up it will cost to defend a lawsuit like that. (Leonard French a copyright lawyer on YouTube covered this extensively a few years back.)

 

[anne O'nymous]

[note: I'm not a lawyer, just a guy with some legal knowledge, this is not a legal advice]

Their shakedown worked essentially as follows: you downloaded our content illegally. You can pay several thousands now or we'll sue you. (this means exposing their name to the world and adding into evidence the names of the porn movies downloaded.)

Like doing so would have also exposed them, I guess that no one sued them for this obvious blackmail.

A reminder to the readers: It's not because you are doing something illegal, or barely legal, that you don't have rights.

If ever someone come to you with such proposal, your answer should be: "Well, sue me, I'm sure that the court, and some attorneys, will appreciate to see the obvious blackmail attempt you just sent me, and surely sent to others before."
If they really wanted to sue you, they would have done it right from the starts and, due to their blackmail scheme, their own risks are higher than yours ; you risk a fine and to be exposed, they risk jail time and to loose their business.

But, of course, this only apply if they effectively ask for a compensation. If they just tell you to stop, comply.

 

[GNVE]

[note: I'm not a lawyer, just a guy with some legal knowledge, this is not a legal advice]
Like doing so would have also exposed them, I guess that no one sued them for this obvious blackmail.

A reminder to the readers: It's not because you are doing something illegal, or barely legal, that you don't have rights.

If ever someone come to you with such proposal, your answer should be: "Well, sue me, I'm sure that the court, and some attorneys, will appreciate to see the obvious blackmail attempt you just sent me, and surely sent to others before."
If they really wanted to sue you, they would have done it right from the starts and, due to their blackmail scheme, their own risks are higher than yours ; you risk a fine and to be exposed, they risk jail time and to loose their business.

But, of course, this only apply if they effectively ask for a compensation. If they just tell you to stop, comply.

Well there are ways to do it legally. (they had more lawyers than porn actresses) They just offered a decent settlement offer. The other party then got a lawyer of their own who advised them it was a good idea to settle since the cost of going to trail are at least XXXXX dollars.
They eventually got found out and shut down. (also because they spread files via torrent as well to trap people wich is a big nono since you then basically licence the video's yourself) but by that time they had made millions.

And I'm recalling this from memory so watch Leonard French to get all the details. (I think it was on malibu media)